I watched this yesterday on 13 WTVG they don't have a hard copy of it only the video. So, since they don't keep the video up, I'm transcribing it here because I think some of what was said should be documented.
Lee Conklin: Close to a shouting match has really developed now, a true war of words between the Police and Fire unions and Toledo City Councilman
Susan Ross Wells: On Wednesday, Councilman Frank Szollosi told 13 ABC Action news that police and fire officials are abusing overtime with permission from Mayor Carty Finkbeiner. But the head of the Toledo Fire Fighters Union fired back demanding an apology from Szollosi.
Frank: So at this point Finkbeiner it would appear is giving them what they want more overtime and it's yet to be seen what kind of a wage increases that the administration will agree to.
Gregg Harris (identified under screen as President TPPA): Frank Szollosi before he opens his big mouth ought to check the facts.
Susan: Well that was Wednesday, today the Police Union continued firing in this war of words, 13 ABC news Bill Hormann is on top of the story. Bill?
Bill Hormann: Susan, Gregg Harris says Toledo Police and Fire members are enraged by Szolloi's comments. So today, the TPPA demanded that Szollosi say I'm sorry and step aside.
Frank: He came into this office and he expressed his displeasure at the tape you showed him.
Bill: Councilman Frank Szollosi admits that and TPPA President Gregg Harris had a short but intense meeting Wednesday regarding Szollosi's charge.
Gregg: I was very upset with his comments they were totally false and the comments that he made were totally inappropriate.
Bill: And after fuming for two days, Harris issued this press release demanding that Szollosi apologize for his remarks and then resign from City Council.
Gregg: I'm not shutting my mouth and I'm not being quiet until that man both apologizes and resigns.
Frank: It's a ridiculous notion to think that I would resign for asking tough questions about the public's money.
Bill: Szollosi says his real concern is the City's budget that he says he meant to take aim at how the Finkbeiner administration is handling overtime charges but recognizes his comments may have missed the mark.
Frank: If my remarks were inartful and were hurtful to the men and women of the fire department or the police department, I absolutely apologize for that because that was not my intent.
Gregg: I don't think he mispoke unless he is an extremely ignorant man, more ignorant than I assumed but he absolutely should not have made those statements and I have not heard an apology.
Bill: Well now he has, but Harris is continuing the fight.
Gregg: He needs to turn around and watch his butt walk out of town. I'm tired of his mouth.
Frank: I do encourage people to have a thick skin and to remain civil in our discourse about all of this.
Bill: Frank Szollosi is also quick to point out that he supports funding for better police and fire equipment and supports funding for more man hours even fought for proposed, fought against proposed layoffs but the unions are still upset with him right now and they say unless he resigns there is no cease fire in this war of words.
Lee: Alright, thanks Bill, and Frank Szollosi also points out if you look at the numbers that police over time is up 23% so far this year and fire up 69% in OT. He says that at the current rate the city will spend over 5 million dollars in over time for this year but the Finkbeiner administration has only budgeted 3.5 million dollars. Gregg Harris who you saw doesn't dispute the numbers but says they are justified. He claims the shortage of man power for big events like the Nazi rally for last year and the recent fires we've had in the City of Toledo.
What is obvious or at least should be obvious is Gregg Harris has a problem with Frank, and Frank has some issues with the Union Leadership as opposed to the union members as a whole. I'd also point out that costs related to the Nazi rallies happened in 2005. Not 2006. One also can't help wondering if the real issue was overtime why the Unions would not present facts rather than making this some type of personal vendetta demanding that Frank resign over an issue that has some basic truth to it once you remove the A vs B team bs from it all. Lastly, there is a professionalism aspect to this as far as how this represents our city.
I think Frank could have handled it better initially, but I think Gregg Harris was also very inappropriate and made it clear it was "I" not "we" in most of this. With the new edict from the mayor concerning increased patrolling of both police and using firefighters to patrol before and after school, it's obvious that the City is going to go way over the 3.5 million dollars budgeted. That should be addressed, and that was the whole main point that seems to have been missed in this "War of Words" coverage.
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Just one quick question, Lisa, regarding the years and spending. Does the city's fiscal year run from January to December? I thought it ran from July through June (since July is when all that road construction on Jackman started last year), but I don't know for certain. If that's the case, the extra coverage for both Nazi visits would have fallen under this fiscal year's budget.
That's possible Val, but the way the media has covered this has been to state expenses for 2006.
This Toledo Blade article states it as 2005/2006:
For the first six pay periods of the year, the city has paid $1.18 million in general operating fund overtime, most of that to police officers and firefighters. That compares to $742,412 in the first six pay periods of 2005.
That's why I'd rather see direct info from both sides of this issue rather than what is happening.
I think the goal should be to provide facts not create some type of a personal battle between Gregg Harris and Frank Szollosi.
If Frank used incorrect facts to me the way to correct that would be to present the facts not make personal insult comments on the nightly news.
I don't have the figures beyond what the media has already reported and as I wrote above to Val, the Blade article gives the impression that this is also tracked via a yearly calendar. I don't think anyone would have a problem understanding that the police overtime was increased due to the riots and the second Nazi rally.
There is also the fact that the unions did not endorse Jack Ford and some of that bad feeling seems to be lingering on both sides. I understand personality issues are going to be a part of politics and normal life. I just think we are all better served when the focus is kept on what is the real issue.
The real issue is the amount budgeted for police and fire overtime is in all reality not going to be only 3.5 million dollars. Isn't it better to budget what is really a closer expectation?
I know Frank has his detractors and I also made it very clear that I felt he could have handled this better. Yet I also think Gregg Harris could have handled this much more professionally as well. I'd love more facts less drama.
As for the double posting? Don't worry about it, I can delete the anonymous one if you'd like me too.
:-)
You correctly nail the issue as another battler in the A Team vs. B Team war, Lisa.
Harris pushed hard for Finkbeiner in the election. This disagreement would not have been news if the participants were on the same "team."
Szollosi is arguably the most visible A Teamer right now (OK, Gerken is pretty high-profile, but work with me here).
And Frank has also been the only Dem to criticize Carty when he deserves it (heck, even the Republicans have been quiet about Carty - Frank is one of the few "true" Democrats left).
I would say that makes Frank Szollosi as much "courageous" as it does (in the parlance of tru2me) a "media whore."
Very nice post, Lisa.
I agree with you that the real issue is the amount of overtime and will there be enough in the budget (fiscal year IS the calendar year and, while the first payCHECK covers some of December, the first pay PERIOD of the year starts in January).
tru2me did have a very valid point about police overtime for court. Every time a person's case is set for court, the office gets a summons to appear. Any postponement in the case means another time that the officer has to be there. Any time a defendent fails to appear, that officer's time (and the court's) is wasted and it means another trip back when the person gets arrested again.
And since cases are usually (at least when I was there) all set for 9 a.m., the officer has no way of knowing what time the case will be heard - they may sit there all morning waiting for their turn.
Certainly, there are things that can be done to help alleviate this, but they all require money (like a new jail so we can actually hold people who have a history of failing to appear). This is where priorities need to come into play.
If we made public safety a priority (which many do), we'd be spending more money on police, fire, enforcement, courts and jails and less on - say - DISCRETIONARY FUNDS FOR ELECTED OFFICIALS...but I digress.
Thanks for pointing out that the real problem is the budget for the rest of the year. Too bad that party politics seems to be taking front seat on this one.
Thank you Maggie, I don't think there are many ways overtime could be totally eliminated, even if we had higher numbers of police and fire there are going to be times when overtime is going to happen.
I'm not questioning the validity of all of the overtime. I was questioning the timing of the riots as far as having an effect on the 2006 numbers because it seemed with the way the information was being presented that overtime should have been listed as a 2005 expense or at least most of it.
My feeling is if it is obvious the City is going to go over budget on the overtime issue it's better to deal with that now rather than to have to make cuts later. If the City feels it necessary to make cuts in some programs such as the $720,000 to the Criminal Justice Coordinating Council then I question not is the discretionary fund acceptable but can the city afford it? Maybe Frank is wrong with is 5 million dollar overtime estimate but it appears he is right that it will go over 3.5 million. Same with the County, there has been a lot of discussion that there needs to be a larger jail facility both the City and the County would need to providing funding for this from what I understand, so is the County discretionary fund wise at this time? Is an arena wise at this time knowing that there are other areas that also need attention? That's why I'd like to see this be discussed because I think it's something people should be thinking about.
I realize the budget is somewhat of a guessing game and there are always going to be areas where more ends up being needed and at times less ended up being needed, I just think on especially this one issue there should be some serious non-political discussion so that next year we are not facing layoffs or larger cuts because this was not addressed.
Slightly off topic, but did anyone see Conklin and Company today? It was rough, Lee almost got his ass kicked by George Sarantou and Sandy Isenberg. He basically tried stirring it up because Sarantou skipped out on a ethics seminar and interupted Isenberg mid sentance.
It was uncomfortable to watch.
Tru2me (duplicate post removed) I totally agree with this statement you made:
overtime is a fact of life when it comes to emergency services. We cannot predict when the next big fire or shooting will happen. If it happens at the end of our shift, then guess what, you work over.
That's why I acknowledge overtime is going to be a part of the budget no matter who is the Mayor.
What I'm interested in is having the process be honest. Is it all necessary? Are there any areas where it could be reduced? If not then the next step should be to move on to the final question, how much is a valid estimate for the City budget. If it needs to be higher than the 3.5 million? Then make the necessary adjustments to the rest of the budget now. No one has a crystal ball so it's possible no matter what final number is given it could go over, all I'd like is to see that it is as close to accurate as possible. I think your earlier statement about overtime for Court hearings is one that should also be looked at because there has to be a better system than the current one.
I don't agree with you that he is doing this merely for publicity but I'm also not naive enough to not realize that there is some history involved here at play as well. I'd personally like to see some of the other councilpersons come forward as to their position on this overtime question. Maybe we will see that after the budget meeting tomorrow.
I appreciate your perspective in this and if I were directly involved I might feel differently. It's easy for me to look at it with less emotion because I'm not in either union. I still do believe both Frank and Gregg Harris could have handled this better, especially as to how Gregg's comments were listed on WTVG. Now, were there other less inflamatory sections of video they could have shown? Probably. Nor am I saying the unions should not have endorsed Jack Ford, even though I do agree with Frank on many issues, if I would have been able to vote in the Mayoral election I would not have voted for Ford.
I also realize that given the history if Frank makes what is perceived as a criticism it's going to be automatically discounted by some. I think in this case there are some valid questions that I'm glad he raised, but that both sides could have handled it better. Which is part of the reason I posted this intially, I wanted for this to be discussed.
Lloyd, I missed it, I meant to watch it but I totally forgot about it, now I really wish I would have.
Sorry, that should of course be I am not saying the unions "should" have endorsed Jack Ford.
:-)
Tru2me:
While you correctly note that the unions do not follow a "party" line, are you really going to deny that the unions went all out for Carty, king of the "B" Team?
Come on.
We all know that Chief Jack Smith - who by the way seems to be doing an excellent job so far - was a bone thrown to the police unions for their support for Carty, whether you will admit it or not.
The police unions - with the exception of the Black Patrolman's associaition - have never been exactly friendly to Ford and the A Teamers.
It seems to me - and you can correct me if I am wrong - that the TPPA's last four endorsements were as follows:
Finkbeiner - 1993
Wichowski- 1997
Kest - 2001
Finkbeiner - 2005
I do not see anything on the TPPA site with endorsement history.
Given the continued focus on the $90,000 discretionary fund rather than the other cuts or the overtime issue, the Blade had an article on this, as a part of it:
Toledo Blade article
Two councilmen have raised objections to the fund, given the city's ongoing fiscal straits. Councilmen Ellen Grachek and Frank Szollosi said the need for police cars, fire engines, and police officers should take priority.
"They're all worthy causes. I believe I have a duty to taxpayers to spend those dollars for primary city services," Ms. Grachek said yesterday.
Mr. Szollosi said, "I don't intend on supporting a budget that gives us discretionary money while cutting in half the number of police cars we can buy."
BTW - I verified those endorsements with a knowledgeable TTPA member.
1993 Finkbeiner: B Team
1997 Wichowski: GOP-turned-B Team
2001 Kest: B Team
2005 Finkbeiner: B Team
Now, it might just be coincidence that the TPPA is always chummy with B-Teamers, but if it looks like a duck...
The city's financial statements indicate a FY that runs January throough December:
2004 Comprehensive Financial Report
Page 16 of the 241-page document notes the following:
"The budgetary process commences with the submission of a Certificate of Estimated Revenue and Expenditures for the upcoming year...in December City Council approves a temporary spending measure for the upcoming year, providing spending authority until an Annual Budget is approved, but no later than March 31 of the ensuing year."
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