Yes, I know, Wal-Mart is supposed to be this big huge evil thing that anyone who is liberal is against. I read the title linked Toledo Blade article about the Wake Up Wal-Mart campaign coming into Toledo. Yet I wondered...who else needs to wake up?
"There is a growing disparity and something fundamentally wrong when a company that employs a majority of Americans says that its workers should not enjoy a healthy standard of living," said Mr. Kofinis, a former campaign adviser to Gen. Wesley Clark during the 2004 presidential campaign.
Meijer's starting wage is $6.00 an hour, according to this. (Yes, that's less than Wal-Mart and is not a living wage. It can take years to get to the living wage.)
REAP states:
Over the past three decades – 1980 to the present, the wage differential between the mainly non-union retail industry compared to the more unionized grocery store sector has been closing. According to the U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics average hourly earnings in the grocery store sector in 1980 were $1.57 an hour above the rest of the retail highly non-union industry. As the following chart shows the grocery store wage advantage has largely disappeared. (The average wage for retail in 2003 was $10.27, the average wage for a grocery store worker was $10.41.)
It is widely believed that the 2003 UFCW retail strike/lockout in Southern California involving 70,000 Kroger, Albertsons and Safeway workers was the beginning of the decline of decent wages and benefits in the retail grocery store industry and certainly in Southern California . It is also widely believed that UFCW completely failed in its overall bargaining/strike strategy and in the challenge of waging an effective struggle against the employer greed.
For sure, the worker concessions in Southern California amounts to hundreds of millions of dollars. But across the country the substantial erosion of UFCW wages and benefits had been taking place for two decades prior to the Southern California clash. Even in Southern and Northern California the retail chain companies had been for years siphoning hundreds of millions of dollars from the workers' pension fund to pay for health care benefits that clearly was the employer's obligation to pay for. Given such a national erosion of UFCW wages and benefits over such a long period of time, it was not surprising that any strategy could avert what amounted to a mop up operation in Southern California to a successful national employer strategy to bludgeon workers into concessions around the country for some two decades.
In North Carolina, Kroger workers are ready to go on strike.
While Target would like you to believe that Wal-Mart is the "Evil Empire":
For years, Target has cultivated an image of itself as the "anti-Wal-Mart," a retailer that refuses to sacrifice workplace standards in the pursuit of higher sales and stock prices.
But now, after a decade of meteoric growth at both Target Corp. and Wal-Mart Stores Inc., labor groups say the two retailers are no longer very different in the way they treat their workers.
Entry-level hourly workers in Target stores earn roughly the same pay and have more difficulty qualifying for healthcare coverage than their peers at Wal-Mart. Both retailers oppose unions and have taken steps to prevent organizing efforts in stores. And both have outsourced jobs overseas to save costs.
Target pays between $6.25 an hour and $8 an hour for entry-level, hourly positions in its Twin Cities stores, according to a recent survey of local Target workers by the Food and Commercial Workers union. That’s in line with what Wal-Mart pays in that market, though some starting-level Wal-Mart workers can earn $9 to $10 an hour, the union said.
Both companies offer healthcare insurance to employees, but Target’s is considered more restrictive. Two years ago, Target dropped health-care insurance coverage for all part-time workers. By contrast, Wal-Mart makes its medical plan available to all workers, full- and part-time.
Now let's do some simple math. If employee A earns $6.25 at a union store and employee B earns $6.25 at a non-union store, who actually takes home more money?
Employee B...because there is no union initiation fee and no monthly dues.
I realize the logic behind demanding Wal-Mart pay more, it's felt that if they can get them to then when contracts are negiotiated for union workers they can demand a higher wage. It's the same principal behind raising the minimum wage, some union contracts have their hourly rate tied to a certain amount above the minimum wage. Those that don't will still use a minimum wage increase to justify a higher hourly rate. Yet if prices increase to cover the raises which is a real possibility, in the end are you really making more money? What about the workers who will not get these automatic or negotiated raises? They actually will have less spendable cash.
So, while people are shaking their fists at Wal-Mart, Target is hoping you won't notice them the same as the local union grocery stores that pay a lower starting wage than Wal-Mart. While all of them would love to "bring the Giant down", very few stop to consider those who pay a lower starting wage. The grocery store market is a competitive one, just ask any former Farmer Jack employee...
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17 comments:
I also did a quick check on Monster.com - without a college degree not many jobs that pay a "living wage". A few examples:
Need to have atten to detail, computer literate, make wise decisions, understand & follow instructions, lift heavy objects (up to 70 lbs). Shift starts7/8am and must be able to stay later for OT & some Saturdays. $8.25 to start with increases at 30 & 90 days.
Okay...one example - the majority of the local employers don't list how much they are going to pay per hour.
:-)
Just one more reason why I love you just the way you are. Your simple math explanation was truely remarkable :).. And to think - all it takes is a little common sense for the union workers to realize it. I would love to hear or in this case see a pro union personnel respond to this post, and I don't want the same-o-same-o bs that wal-mart is an evil conservative box store and that's all that matters. I want some cold hard facts as to why union is better than non-union.
Unions do provide collective bargaining so I'm not saying I totally disagree with the concept of unions. My issue is the irony of Wal-Mart being targeted when some union workers don't earn a living wage, some earn even less than Wal-Mart pays and other non-union locations such as Target pay less or similar with less benefits.
I'm not as anti-union, I'm anti demanding something from a company when those demanding it are not even providing the same.
I also have a big problem with the creation of the tier wages. It dooms our kids to never being able to earn what our parents and a few in our age group earn per hour at these grocery stores and in most union manufactoring positions.
Some of those who are so anti-Walmart had no problem agreeing to screw over all the new hires. It is human nature to want to keep what you have, however it's hypocritical to demand that someone else do what you were not willing to do.
Although I usually try not to get into the Walmart "debate" I really have to say someting about this. I am a former worker of Walmart and Kroger and even Meijer (yes, I do have a hard time staying at jobs, no, I wasn't fired from any of them).
When I worked at Kroger, 50% of the time my breaks were never gotten because there weren't enough people to cover so that I could take a break. They were also much less flexible on scheduling, and my pay, I believe, was right around $6 an hour before union dues, etc. Although I love shopping at Kroger, I will never work for them again because of the way they treat their employees and becaus of how ridiculously they do their scheduling. I was offered health insurance, but didn't take it because of how ungodly expensive it was. Fortunately I didn't need it because I had insurance through my husband.
While at Meijer, I also made right around $6 an hour before union dues. I ran into the same scheduling problems as I did at Kroger, but not break problems. Possibly the only reason that I quit working at Meijer was because I had a horrid case of bronchitis and tried to stay home from work one night but was told that if I did not come in I would not have a job to come back to. So I reported to work (I was a front end cashier) and went to my register and got busy. It was a fairly steady night. I felt like crap, but was doing ok when my supervisor came up to me and told me to go outside and help with carts. I practically begged her to not have me do this because of how sick I was, but was told that I had to go outside (It was winter and bitter cold). At that moment I quit simply because my health is far more important than a $6 an hour job. Their insurance was also very expensive.(this was, I believe, in 2000)
When I hired in at Walmart approximately a year later I had a starting wage of $7.25 an hour. I was also a cashier. They were very flexible with me on my schedule. Approximately 4 months after being hired in I came down with double pneumonia. My doctor opted to treat me at home rather than admitting me in the hospital. I called Walmart and asked for my department manager and explained to him what was going on. He told me to not worry about the store, but to focus on getting better and that my job would be there waiting for me when I was back to 100%. I ended up being off work for 2 weeks and went I went back my job was exactly as it was before I got sick. I never had a single problem while working at Walmart, I feel I was treated more than fairly by not only the management but also other associates. I was even given the opportunity to go to another store in another state for a week with all of my expenses paid. It was a wonderful experience that I really enjoyed. All in all my experience at Walmart was wonderful, I really enjoyed the job. The reason I left this job was because I had a nervous breakdown. I feel that if I were to go back and apply to work for them again that they would gladly take me back, and if I need to, I will.
Anyway, sorry this is so long, I just wanted to share my personal experiences with union and non-union stores. I do understand where unions can be a good thing, but I will keep the rest of this opinion to myself ;-)
As a former employee of Meijer, I think I may speak to this issue. The reason why non-union employers are "closing the gap" is simple - they don't wnat their employees to unionize. A strike is very expensive. As for Holly stating that she made about $6.00 an hour at Meijer as a cashier, I know for a fact that is a lie. As of the year 2000, Meijer started their cashiers at $7.25 an hour (maybe less, but I know it was over $7). Frankly, the unions help set the market wage rate for everyone, including wal-mart and target. Wal-mart knows that it must pay reasonable wages to keep up with the market rate, whereas unionized companies set the market rate. While Wal-mart employees might make more than union employees after dues, union employees take that cut for guaranteed raises and guaranteed union protection. Not everything economic is about dollars and cents. I guess my point is, that Lisa's "simple math" isn't so simple after all. While she is correct, there are other factors to take into consideration. The overall conclusion of this article is correct, however. Wal-mart pays fairly, but they set their rate based on unionized companies in the area.
Kurt, I know Holly and I also know other people who have also worked there. So I don't think she is lying, I'd also point out that this states in 2002:
The current union contract was ratified in November 2002. While each region and store may have a different union contract, the established starting wages as follows: General Merchandise clerks (employees who work in the various general merchandise departments) start at $6.00/hour and make a top wage of $10.50/hour. Grocery team members start at $6.60/hour and can make up to $12.00/hour. Cashiers start at $6.15/hour and make a top wage of $11.35/hour.
this also confirms exactly what Holly says she was paid:
Retail Clerk - I started out making $6.00 an hour...
Cashier - you out at $6.15 an hour...
As for my simple math? It's still simple math. If you are paying union dues and have to pay an initiation fee you are going to make less an hour than the same non-union employee. I don't disagree with you that the wages are in part raising to avoid making stores union. However, it's also true that the local retail unions and nationally the retail unions have sold out the new hires in the tier system.
If a person feels it is worth it to make less to be able to have union representation that is their choice. I just think it's hypocritical to forget all of the other employers that do not pay a living wage that are both union and non-union.
I come from a family that has many union members and very few have had a positive experience. My own experience when Convergys tried to unionize is something I'll never forget. My ex-husband recently lost his job after 22 years - the whole plant closed and the union did nothing. Many of the guys are considering suing the union from what I was told because of the very poor representation they were given.
Unions at one time were necessary, they protected workers. Unfortunately now some of the upper management of unions have become no different than company management.
I realize that's not a popular thing to write in a Democratic Union town but? I've watched many good people become very bitter and unemployed because they wrongly had faith in their union representation. Just like our political system needs an over-haul, so do some of the unions.
From Detroit 2005:
John Frederick experienced deja vu when he applied. The 41-year-old Highland resident worked in the furniture department at the Waterford Meijer 12 years ago, when his salary started at $8 an hour. Frederick is now being considered for a similar job, starting at $6.
"I would take it," said the father of four. "I would take any job with benefits and health insurance. I've been laid off about three times since I left Meijer."
One of my best friends started working at Kroger when he was 15 at little over min. wage. He has been there for 8 years now and is making $11.00/hr and pretty much runs the produce department.
Another one of my friends started in four years ago when they were hiring in at $6.00. She was frustrated with the union dues and the fact that as a young'un, she didn't get much consideration from her union bosses since she didn't have any seniority. At the same time, I was working at Sam's Club in my second year of cashiering making $8.50 (I had started at $7.00)
As an intern working in a union manufacturing plant, I am increasingly annoyed by the seniority system. It's not fair if there is a younger worker that works much much harder than somebody who has been there five years and the younger worker will be the first to get laid off if business is bad. It is very depressing and I would even say against the principles of capitalism and democracy that this person who works so hard is being pushed around simply because somebody older than him wants his job.
Holly is right, Walmart is VERY flexible. I also enjoyed their Open Door policy where you could go over your manager's head if they were wrong and you could not be punished. Yeah, that can be abused, but so can unions. When my friend had a problem with scheduling and tried to approach the Kroger union, they wouldn't help her. Where else was she to go?
Kurt,
I was not lying, I worked at Meijer in 1998, and in 1998 they started cashiers out at $6, or something very near that. The only reason I know it was in the $6 range for sure is because when I quit there and got a new job I started at $7 and thought it was pretty neat to be making that an hour for the first time. My mistake in not clarifying when I worked there, but to call someone a liar without knowing all of the facts is a pretty hasty call. I do apologize for not putting the years of my employment in my reply, and I also realized that a couple of years does make a different in pay at many places of employment, but I still prefer Walmart.
I worked at Kroger for just over 8 years, leaving in 1997 to finish Grad school. I was making over $11 per hour then (started at $3.50). My union dues were well worth it. I will also earn a pension from the Union when I retire. It isn't much (< $100 per month) but not bad for a high school/college job. What does a decade at Wal-Mart get you?
I do remember there were employees at Kroger that had 20 years experience. They were considered good jobs; product clerk, meat cutter, etc. These were people's careers. People bought homes and sent their kids to school on what they made. Now all the Kroger jobs have been Wal-Martized. No one who is going to be hired this year will be around in 10 years.
What will the next 10-20 years bring for our kids?
China will be the worlds manufacture and India will rule service industry. It doesn't bold well for the middle class.
Sensor G
What would a decade at Wal-Mart give you? They list a a profit sharing plan and 401(k) plan as employee benefits.
How secure is that? Probably about as secure as the pension money in a union. Reading the language of the pension I will eligible for which is thru a union, if it goes belly up? Too bad for me.
However, we do agree on the concern for our kids. I don't think the blame lies with Wal-mart though. Here locally the two tiered wages started well before Wal-Mart was a huge threat.
If you go back into labor history, it's the Airlines who first started the two tier wage system in the 1980's.
Long but very interesting read on the workforce and unions in history.
I didn't mean to call you a liar, what I meant to say was that I recall the rates of cashier's being significantly higher than that (but I may be wrong). I will say, though, that Meijer tops out way too low. Regardless, my point was that Wal-mart pays their employees slightly more so that they don't unionize. In this respect, the unions have an effect on Wal-mart's wages. Furthermore, if pay is equal, then non-unionized employees take home more cash, while unionized employees pay for services such as guaranteed raises and union protection. Some people might value those services more than the extra cash they take home. Others might not. But the value of those services were not taken into your simple math. That was my point. In sum, wal-mart wouldn't be so good to their employees if their competitors weren't unionized.
I'll agree with most of that Kurt and I did mention collective bargaining in the comments as a union benefit but you are correct I did not mention that in the initial post.
I'm not sure the only reason Wal-Mart pays what it does it to avoid unions but it is a part of it. When you know some of the union places pay less that does diminish the incentive to go thru what is necessary to get a union in to a non-union employer. That is not a task for the faint of heart.
:-)
The only problem here is that companies can find enough employees at these wage levels.
As long as there are bodies filling those jobs at those wages, there is no real incentive to pay more.
Perhaps this is influenced by the number of illegals in our country, pushing wages lower, or maybe it's the uneducated young adults that we keep squirting out of our high schools; either way, there are plenty of folks in this conutry willing to work for these low wages.
True.
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