Saturday, July 29, 2006

New arena cost could top 80 million dollars...

As I read the title linked Toledo Blade article, several things made me wonder...

Back on March 15th in the Toledo Blade:

Under the contract, the initial project budget is estimated at $80 million, a number Mr. Gerken called a "placeholder" that likely will be more than is needed.

Today Mr. Gerken is quoted as saying:

"I think it's close to that [$82 million] area," he said. "I prefer to have a number that starts with a 7 than an 8, but we don't want a phony number, and we want the community to discuss what that is. We could have a $60 million price tag that doesn't include x and y."

On February 22nd from the Toledo Blade:

Initial estimates have put the cost of the project at $50 million to $70 million. Mr. Chema said last month the figure would be closer to $50 million.

January 10th, Toledo Blade:

He (Chema) said he thought the cost would be closer to $50 million, and said there would be administrative savings by pairing the facility with the convention center. Putting the arena elsewhere would result in two publicly owned spaces competing against each other, which Mr. Chema said would not make sense.

"Having a connection into the convention center will solve a lot of issues," he said. "You also are grouping similar kinds of entertainment facilities together and that would stimulate economic development, as it has in other communities, such as in Cleveland."


I think we have established that from January until July the estimated price has now gone up to build the arena. I'm not exactly sure why since I don't believe construction costs have jumped that much in 6 months but I do agree with a comment Bob McCloskey made back on January 10th:

"I've argued this, and I'm tired. It ends up like a pissing match, and it makes [us] sound like a bunch of adolescents to argue location. It's [about] what's practical," he said. "It's time to move on, let's get the thing built, because the [construction] numbers keep rising, and it's never going to get cheaper."

So there we have it, the new arena will most likely cost well over 80 million dollars. Personally I think something like that should be approved by the voters but that is not a requirement. The Lucas County Commissioners have the authority to sell bonds. We also know that when the stadium for the Mud Hens came up before the voters they defeated the measure, 59.3 per cent to 40.7 per cent.

Putting it in perspective - it was stated in 1996 that a new arena for the Mud Hens would cost 15 million dollars then a month later it was stated as costing probably 20 million dollars. In 1997, the cost was stated as anywhere from $29.3 million to $33.7 million. In 2001, cost between $37 million and $39 million was the estimate.

Then on May 10, 2001 in the Toledo Blade:

The total cost of the stadium project was set yesterday at $39,225,000. The figure includes land acquisition; design and engineering fees; fees paid to Mr. Chema's firm, Gateway Consultants Group of Cleveland, and construction costs.

Mr. Chema said the stadium's guaranteed construction cost, which Lathrop must meet, is $31,298,710.


It seems as if the new arena project will cost more than double what was paid for Fifth Third Field. It could possibly cost three times as much. That doesn't necessarily mean that the County won't get state assistance to help build a new arena. While I'm not an anti-arena person, these numbers do make me pause and wonder if I really agree with the concept of this large of a project being done without an okay of the taxpayers...

16 comments:

Mike Driehorst said...

That Blade article also, if I recall right, briefly mentioned rehabbing the Sports Arena.

Storm President Barry Soskin, in a Toledo Free Press article, said it could be done for $38 million. See:
http://www.toledofreepress.com/?id=3265

Now, I don't know how a rehabbed Sports Arena would compare to a new arena, but all resonable options should be considered.
-- Mike
(Disclosure: I worked with the Storm late last season in PR and marketing.)

Unknown said...

Only problem with that now is that the City has purchased the Sports Arena and it seems any chance of it being built on the East Side is pretty much done. It would have been less expensive to re-hab what was there.

In theory the 163 million dollar Marina project is supposed to make up for the loss of the arena to the East Side of Toledo. It very well could end up that way if retailers are found and the project ends up as it is planned.

liberal_dem said...

Does Lucas County/Toledo need to spend $80 milliion on a new arena or new sewers?

Anonymous said...

Tom Chema is notorious for cost overruns. Ask anyone in Cleveland about how Jacob's Fiels and Quicken Loans Arena cost a heck of a lot more than he projected. Is the only reason why Tom Chema have a contract with the county because he has Jim Ruvalo on his payroll?

Chas said...

Not just the Gateway project, but check out the stories he helped spin for a minor league ballpark in Eastlake sometime. Great fiction. No, it wouldn't cost the taxpayers any money. It would come in at maybe 12 million dollars.

Reality, Eastlake is now on the hook to pay $1 million per year for the next 20 or so after cost overruns, wildly inaccurate predictions on the other money, and just bad numbers.

Maggie said...

Lisa - thanks for covering this...

Yes - many unanswered questions about the cost and the availability of money to pay for it.

I'd love to have it go to a vote of the county, but I don't expect that to happen.

The report is due any day now...I'll make sure that it's available so bloggers can do what they do so well - analyze!

and, no, I haven't made up my mind on the arena - I'm still waiting for all the details...

Maggie said...

anonymous - very interesting...any proof you can provide?

Anonymous said...

Maggie,

Perhaps Tom Noe is on the payroll with Tom Chema and can buy you a ticket to another fundraiser. Oh. I forgot, that was Sam's fault. So much for personal responsibility.

Unknown said...

That has nothing to do with this topic anonymous - I'd ask that you not use my blog to make anonymous personal digs. I realize the trend is to do away with anonymous commenting and use comment moderation but I'd prefer to keep things the way they are here.

Unknown said...

As to the Ruvulo/Chema connection - I did find this which suggests Jim was on the Ford team and at least at that time Chema was donating money to Ray Kest.

Tom Chema, who consulted with Lucas County on the new Mud Hens stadium, contributed $1,000 to Mr. Kest. Frank Kass, whose $175 million development - including a new sports arena - on the east bank of the Maumee River downtown, gave him $5,000.

Unknown said...

This is interesting. While it was written in 1998 it points out some interesting information.

"I look at a ballpark as part of the civic infrastructure, not unlike roads, bridges and sewers," Chema says. "But these stadiums don't pay for themselves. The only ballpark that has come close to pulling its own weight is Dodger Stadium. It makes sense for the public to have an investment."

Unknown said...

And if you want more Chema info...

this is really interesting - sounds like it is going to be quite the resort including gambling...

Anonymous said...

anonymous - very interesting...any proof you can provide?

Maggie:
I didn't post the message about the Chema/Ruvalo connection, but I can elaborate on it. The Ruvalo/Chema connection was mentioned in the now defunct Mentalblock.net website. The website administrator, "Dr. Phil Channel" (who interesting enough resided at the BSGU football stadium cica 2003-2004), brought this connection up in one of his columns. In addition, Dr. Phil mentioned how the local politicians and the local media NEVER mentioned anything about cost overruns on the Gateway Project (something to which many Clevelanders are angry with Chema over).
I don't know if this is true or valid, but it does back up what the anonymous poster mentioned.
Does this help, Maggie?

Unknown said...

I agree the Cleveland over-runs were a huge problem for Cleveand. From my understanding there are still people who think that Chema did not create a good deal for Cleveland.

I'm not sure if one of the reasons the Gateway project was not mentioned as much was because Lucas County did have a contract that protected them from over-runs. Perhaps learning a lesson from what happened in Cleveland but I agree that information is not out there.

I haven't found a connection to Ruvulo to Chema yet but I have not delved deep into campaign contributions either. It's a shame that the information on Mentalblock wasn't archived, I remember that site very well.

Thank you for the information anon...

Maggie said...

thanks, anon.

Anonymous said...

Excellent, love it!
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