In the battle between residents of South Toledo who want the proposed bike path and those who do not, things are heating up. Now who is responsible for stealing the signs protesting the bike path and the red ribbons? City Workers, Lucas County Democrat officials, some of those pro-bike path people from Wildwood or some one who wanted to push some buttons...
In the above linked NBC 24 story:
"My wife actually heard them about 1:30 in the morning with a trunk and putting the sings in," says Bob Knapik, who opposes the project. "We never saw who it was or anything."
One wonders why the police weren't called then or why Mrs. Knapik didn't go to the window to see who was out there stealing signs and ribbons if she heard them. She might have been able to get a description of the get a way car.
UPDATE: An anonymous commenter who is not too fond of blogs, has been kind enough to provide more information than the text article from NBC 24 had last night. Mrs. Knapik is in a wheelchair which is why she could not see who it was. Anonymous also states the police were called.
Personally I doubt the Mayor or anyone from the local Democratic Party or City Workers would be involved in something this stupid. Not that some rather stupid things have not been done at times but logically it would only make those who didn't want the bike path more angry. Angry enough to take off work to attend the meeting scheduled in the morning that certain local people had some concerns would not get enough angry residents? That to me is the logical reason behind someone doing this, a purposeful attempt to enrage those who were against the bike path.
It seems if that was the goal? They got what they wanted.
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You obviously didn't know this when you wrote your blog which is a problem with a lot of blogs, no investigating, just opinion....the womann in the story is wheelchair bound and unable to make it to the window or door quickly enough. Pollice were called. And it's really sad you are cynical enough to believe the neighborhood would do this to create a bigger crowd at the meeting. If people have to work and can't attend, no amount of sign stealing will change that.
It seems that there are still more morons out there especially ones who can't spelll. At this point no one knows what happened and it's not cynical to believe that if someone from that neighborhood doesn't think there's enough support against this that it might go through.
Hey Lisa, where would like me to put these signs. lol :)
Dear anon - No matter how you feel about bloggers we are not mind readers and the 24 piece does not mention she was in a wheelchair, or that the police were called, which would be some important facts. So I'd suggest you take that up with them rather than making this some type of attack on blogging.
Nor am I cynical enough to believe a whole neighborhood would do this, but given the accusations that were made (if you bothered to read the Toledo Talk thread) believing that is more likely a few individuals who wanted to make people angry is a more logical situation than accusing Local Democratic Party members... Stealing signs is not going to make people drop a cause. I'd suggest that you read all of the links provided, since that's how I came up with my opinion.
Thank you for the explanation/correction on why Mrs. Knapik did not go to the window. I'm sure all of us who only had 24 news to go on for that report appreciate it. That's something else blogs do, provide clarification and more information thru those who participate.
:-)
As for you Roman...behave!
There are people out there who don't like blogs, and like this anonymous poster seem to feel that we just create opinion without doing any news checking at all. There are some bloggers out there like that. There are also some bloggers who make typo's, especially when they are in the heat of a comment and you can't edit a comment once you hit publish...
I do agree with you that we don't really know who did this and if people are going to accuse the mayor or others then it's more than just being cynical to offer other options as to who to look at. Looking at motive from a point of logic is what I'd suggest.
Maybe if anon comes back he or she will discover not all bloggers are quite what they think. Maybe not, and...I think we should make a sign for the new place that says PEDDLE IT HERE! PLEASE...
:-)
I wouldn't be surprised if Carty was behind this. It makes sense. Carty's MO is to take down signs that disagree with him. For example, a few years back, someone put up an anti- 3/4% income tax sign downtown. Carty ordered it to be removed, and replace with a pro-3/4% tax sign. The excuse that he used was that the anti-tax sign was on public property, and it wasn't "authorized" (Carty's the king of placing unauthorized signage in public place locally). Also, there was one guy in either the East Toledo or the Old South End (McCloskey's od district), a few years back, who put up a sign that said "CARTY SUCKS" because he felt Carty was neglecting his neighborhood, and he wanted to get Carty's attention. Carty ordered the police to take the sign down without even communicating with this man.
The difference in those situations as you stated in your comments anon is Carty ordered it - if he was behind these signs being removed I think it would have been done differently.
I went thru the archives thanks to the Toledo-Lucas County Library and found this from 1996. That's as far back as the archives go on line.
I do remember what you are talking about as far as the Carty sucks sign, but I can't remember when that was either. I went into the City Charter to see when the the 3/4% tax was added, since I know there was a vote in 2004 but Ford was Mayor then so I'm not as clear as to the details of that incident. I fully admit I was not paying as close of attention several years ago as I am now, so if I've missed something, feel free to elaborate.
The Charter states:
For the period commencing July 1, 1982 and ending December 31, 2004, and for the additional period commencing January 1, 2005, and ending December 31, 2008, an annual tax for the purposes specified in Section 1905.01, Toledo Municipal Code, shall be levied, imposed, collected and paid at the rate of two and one quarter percent (2 1/4%) per annum, and thereafter unless otherwise imposed by separate ordinance approved by the electorate, the annual tax shall be reduced to the former rate prior to July 1, 1982, of one and one-half percent (1 1/2%) per annum, upon the following:
I'm not going to pretend I'm a huge fan of Carty, but I don't think he would order City Workers to remove signs in the middle of the night. If he did, someone is going to start talking about being told to do so. This at first glance appears to have a different motivation. Either a neighbor who wanted the bike path and felt they couldn't speak out and didn't think this thru as far as reaction or someone who wanted to generate even more bad feelings/anger and create more PR, or kids.
Granted at times logic doesn't appear to apply in Toledo but that is where I am coming from on it.
Sorry, for some reason the open URL's from Newsbank aren't coming up. They have in the past so the jist of the 1996 article since it involves one of the persons accused on Toledo Talk of removing signs. This was November 5, 1996:
Arturo Quintero, Mr. Finkbeiner's executive assistant, confirmed that Ms. Perz's signs were taken by workers on city time. The work is part of a continuing, eight-week sweep along the Anthony Wayne Trail, he said.
Signs for Democratic candidates have been removed too, he said.
``We constantly have gotten complaints about not removing signs along the city's right-of-way,'' Mr. Quintero said.
Mayor Finkbeiner had not seen Ms. Perz's statement last evening and would not comment, but several of his aides denied that politics played a role in removing the Perz campaign signs.
``There was no vendetta or anything else,'' said Stephen Herwat, the city's building inspection commissioner. ``The mayor did not and has not said to go after any particular candidates. We do not play favorites.''
Ms. Perz faces Democrat Mark Leasor today in the battle for Ohio House District 52.
Around 10:30 p.m., Mr. Haddad and two others were surveying Haddad campaign signs they had posted in the grassy area where the heavily traveled I-75 meets I-475.
``I look across the road and I see my sign gone and a Copeland sign up,'' Mr. Haddad said. ``They had them all torn up and laying on the highway.''
Democratic incumbent Bill Copeland is his opponent.
``I jumped out of the truck, and I grabbed a fence post because I didn't know what to expect,'' Mr. Haddad said.
Carrying the post, he walked down the grassy area toward Mr. Montalto, who was putting up Copeland signs.
He asked what had happened to his Haddad signs.
``Someone had taken down the Haddad signs,'' Mr. Montalto said yesterday. ``When we came there, his signs were on the ground.''
I have the whole article that I can email anyone who doesn't have access thru the Library but because of the length I don't want to list all of it. That is the when accusation of Mr. Montalto pulling a knife and Mr. Haddad swinging a fence post happened.
Personally I doubt the Mayor or anyone from the local Democratic Party or City Workers would be involved in something this stupid.
Ah, the eternal optomist!
I'll put it this way LD - if it turns out Carty had something to do with this? It will make his previous blunders such as the whole Deaf Community letter reading snafu and the recent King Kong statement seem minimal to the outrage this would create. Especially given the current battle with WSPD. I am optimistic that he or those who advise him would not be that stupid.
:-)
Sign games are part and parcel of local dirty politics.
I doubt Carty was behind it, but I suspect that someone(s) who is loyal to the mayor might have gotten pissed off and taken matters into their own hands.
I do not buy into the reverse-conspiracy, whereby anti-bike path people stole their own signs for sympathy, but it is possible.
Better conspiracy: Fred and Brian at WSPD did it for ratings!
Lisa,
Is there a way to check and see if there are any other neighborhoods who would love to have a bike path. If the residents of that particular hood do not want one then hell skip them and select another location that would still benefit those of us who would love to have one and still keep the desired mileage.
Mike, I don't think if it turns out to be (if we ever find out) one of the bike path supporters they did it to create sympathy. Maybe I'm more devious in my thinking but to me the perfect way to get people to pay attention and to become even more involved against this with the upcoming meeting would be to pull a stunt like this. From a PR stance, something like this creates more attention and keeps them in the news.
Then again, with school being out - it could have been some kids out way past curfew looking to create some mischief.
Either way? One thing is for sure, living in this are is rarely boring.
:-)
Roman, (it feels so weird to write to you like that - lol) there are two main facets to this issue. One the neighborhoods who don't want it and then those who oppose the cost.
So it could very well be that Toledo City Council decides that money could better utilized rather than just place it in one of the neighborhoods that might want it.
Given some of the cuts made, it's easy to see why the cost factor may end up being more of a real issue than the neighborhood issue.
I highly doubt the Knapik's were the only residents on the street, let alone the only ones up late enough to hear something.
What time was this? Were there any local residents with security cameras or traffic cameras in the area that could check vehicles? (cough)
I wanna hear if knife cuts stick and not paper, or would the rock have been the better option?
Oh do paste away.
(laughing with Kate) :-)
Brian it was stated they heard it at 1:30 - others have said between 2 and 6 a.m. Maybe someone else did hear something and 24 just didn't talk to them.
It probably doesn't create a lot of noise taking down signs though, depending on how they were put up.
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