I read this:
“See You at the Pole,” in which students gather at their school flagpoles to pray before the start of their junior and senior high school classes, will be held nationwide Wednesday. The suggested starting time is 7 a.m. but it can vary.
This year’s theme is “Be Still and Know that I Am God,” from Psalm 46:10. The program started in 1990 in Burleson, Texas, and last year, more than 2 million teenagers prayed around flagpoles in all 50 states.
I haven't heard anything about any of our local public schools participating in this, but thought it was interesting enough to do some further research. I don't have a problem with the concept of students praying, the original concept behind "See you at the flag pole" appears to be the idea of students even though Baptist General Convention of Texas owns the trademark for the See You at the Pole™ name and event now. That is a bit bothersome since that takes this out of the realm of the students alone being the reason for this but what is most troubling is concern about the original concept of this being twisted by those who are participating. It's been suggested that a few groups who have chosen to try to use this day of prayer as a way to define who is "with us or against us" when it comes to being Christian. That to me goes against the very creation of this day of prayer.
At Religious Tolerance Org one example that was listed:
Nearly 150 Christian students gathered in the school yard during the 2005 SYATP event. They wrote the names of non-Christian students on pieces of paper. Darrell Haley, a youth pastor at the local E-Church brought a portable wooden cross which was set up next to the school flagpole....
Yet, if you actually look at the pdf the caption next to the photo of the cross states:
Participants brought prayer requests and nailed them to the cross. Rachel wrote, “God truly moved in such a mighty way. I just felt the presence of God and the Holy Spirit at our school today.”
The other source quoted that Religious Tolerance used is the Edmund Sun newspaper which doesn't have archives going back that far to verify. I did find this which states:
They also prayed for non-Christian students in their school and wrote their names down on paper.
In a solemn, symbolic offering, they nailed the pieces of paper to a wooden cross, set up beside the flag pole.
Then I found this article by Jeff Hall that not only confirms this did happen but expresses pretty close to what I feel about these types of events:
To publicly label them as “non-Christian” in a majority Christian community in a majority Christian state is, in my opinion, not a Christian thing to do.
“See You at the Pole” is meant to give Christian students a sense they have a strong community in their schools and a chance to express publicly their desire for God’s grace and blessings on each other, their communities, their nation, their world.
It shouldn’t be public finger-pointing.
Let's hope that if any of our local schools that decide to participate in "See you at the flag pole", the adults remember that this is for the students and that everyone remembers that we do have freedom of religion in this country. Which also includes the freedom to not participate in a religion. May those who participate and those who decide not share what is most important, tolerance and respect of others.
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9 comments:
Sounds so wrong to me. Seriously - how can it be done properly, Lisa Renee at a public school? Can't the parents do it with their kids before they get on the bus or at their church ?
If they need to know that they have a strong community in their schools, how the heck do they think Jew after Jew after Jew or Muslim after Muslim after Muslim or Hindu after Hindu after Hindu makes it through school without ever knowing that?
Because it's a PUBLIC school. Yeah, it's nice to know you belong, but if your sense of belonging depends on your religion, then why not attend a parochial school?
I'm sorry - I just don't get that.
Jill, quite a few people have had that question about it, the general statement has been since it is not organized by the school and is in theory organized by the students and is not done during regularly scheduled class time that it is allowed to happen on public school property.
I'm not even sure how many Ohio public schools are going to participate but when I read about it in the Blade I started to do more research.
Jill - this might interest you, it's from 2003 but it provides where those who state "See you at the pole" is legal are coming from.
:-)
It seems to me the "See you at the pole" is another veiled attempt by some of the Christian community to have us all believe as they do and they will complain that the free speech rights are being trampled but when some are asked, as I have done in conversations with people, if it would be okay for Jews, Muslims, First Nation peoples, and so on to have thier religious prayers cited in schools and so on, they will say sure but they need to know that this is a Christian country and if they don't like it then leave.
The ultimate goal seems to be some convoluted vision of the ways things use to be. Which is in my opinion a dream. Do we want to return to the days of the Puritans? Do we want to return to the days of the Victorians? Do we want to return to public humiliation with stocks and scarlet letters? One just needs to watch some of the so called family viewing on the religious tv channels and what do we see, Andy Griffith and Aunt Bee.
Actually, Springfield High School students did the "See You at the Pole" event, and it wasn't a big deal. Probably about 10% of the student body participated, but they were still expected to be at class on time. I didn't go, but some of my friends did, and it just wasn't anything problematic. It was completely student-run, and it was very respectable.
Springfield was a VERY Christian public school. The teachers and administrators often bordered on the inappropriate with "Challenge Day" and the organization SHAPE. They were two systems that were meant to create unity among all students, but ended up being promoters of Christianity because, well... all the administration and teachers were Christian.
The "See You at the Pole" event, however, was okay. Of course, most of the kids at SHS were too apathetic to care about that anyhow.
"Well, from the 'other' perspective. Our kids are supposed to have the right to express their faith at school. They don't drop their religion at the school house door or their rights to it."
I do not mean any offense but can you quote to me where it is written or suggested or stipulated that there is a right to express faith at school.
"However, many are confused about those rights - even telling children they must remove their crosses or stars of David so they don't offend other students."
I do not see much confusion but I do see many that want it one way.
"To that end - my kids have been involved for many years at the see you at the pole exercise - because I have exercised my rights to put them in a school where their faith will be tolerated."
Intolerance has been used as a reason to for the Christians, some, to claim that their faith is some how being out down when, in my opinion, that is quite absurd as some have been trying to expand their reach and spread and when someone says no to something gives them exclusive access or an exclusive podium to speak from in a public arena, they will cry foul and say that their rights are being infringed on.
"We have a long, long way to go about learning tolerance for other people's beliefs."
This is very very true given the out cry that "Muslims" are too blame and it cannot been seen that it is only the fanatical that are too blame. Does tolerance for an-others faith exclude that faith from a public school as in allowing the faith to have a presence along side all the other faiths of the world?
"Christians had little or no choice for several decades following the mandatory attendance laws. Now we have options."
Oh for goodness sakes, little choice?
Go to school and leave faith at home and family. Why does ones faith have to be such a public display or group event.
I have a faith that I follow and I do not make a show of it in public.
Kate - it's not the law that you have to send your child to public school. It's the law that you have to educate your child. Many parochial schools cost nothing or next to nothing. You can homeschool, which is something that many Christian congregations encourage their members to do.
What are you talking about here:
"Christians had little or no choice for several decades following the mandatory attendance laws. Now we have options.
We're exercising them.
In droves..."
I am completely in the dark as to what you're describing. Are you saying that Christians were required to go to public school and that was a bad thing? What are the options you see that now exist that didn't exist beefore? How exactly are you exercising those options?
What you describe isn't anything I've ever read about or witnessed or experienced, and I've been in the public school system or my kids have for over 40 years. As a Jew.
Jill, what she's describing in that quote is the MISCONCEPTION that Christians have ever NOT been able to have a choice about their religion in the U.S. Other than the Protestants in Europe (who won) and the Pilgrims (who left), this is pretty much untrue. Read your history my dear...Christians are pretty much not the underdog in the stories; the Muslims, the Jews, the natives, the Buddists, (insert any other religion from any other area of the world),anyone who disagrees with Christians get the honor of that title. What HAS happened throughout history is that Christians going to other countries to "educate" the "heathens" and those said "heathens" have either chosen to follow or have not, sometimes have responded violently to exercise their own right to their own religion, and have been met with violence and death from the "righteous". Crusades, anyone? Scotland anyone? India anyone? Africa, anyone?
I am a Christian, but that does not mean that I go preaching door to door to others (we all know who they are) and praying in school and asking people to convert to "the right religion". I allow others to believe what they believe, and expect the same from them (although rarely get the same curtesy from the other side it seems - I can't tell you how many times I've been handed a bible by a stranger, preached to, had my door knocked on, had someone tell me that I just need to be "saved" or to find Jesus Christ - AND I PRACTICE MY FAITH!).
Religion - many church leaders will concur - is supposed to be a private exchange between you and God, not between you, the community, whoever is there to listen, a flagpole, your 60 closest neighbors and their buddies, and God. You are not a better Christian just because people can hear you pray or because people see you attended church that week. Your actions prove how "Christian" you are in the end anyway - how you've treated the people around you and what you've done, not how loudly you've said your prayers.
Fine, you want to "exercise your right" to pray in public...but don't justify it by saying that you've been unable to in the past. Give me a break.
Anon, I feel similarly on a number of points you make. Thanks.
Kate - what say you? I am sincerely interested in understanding what informs your assertions. Thanks.
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